The Fit to Grit Cast
Fit to Grit is an audio/video/newsletter hybrid featuring in-depth conversations with leadership within the athletic space. Guests range from top executives within the athletic space to professionals in adjacent industries with a proven track record of success working in the athletic industry.
We explore visionary ideas and practical strategies driving the industry forward, covering areas such as marketing, finance, branding, equipment, product development, biz dev, and more. Join us as we share actionable insights and real-world experiences while embodying the "fit to grit" spirit.
The Fit to Grit Cast
From Weight Loss to World Change
What if America's health crisis could be solved by better education? Ashton believes it can. After his personal transformation from a 300-pound high school athlete to losing over 110 pounds through lifestyle changes, he discovered a critical gap in our educational system: comprehensive health education.
The turning point came during the pandemic when Ashton's fitness business shifted online. Client after client expressed the same regret: "I wish someone had taught me this when I was young." Confronted with the alarming statistic that 86.3% of American adults would be overweight or obese by 2030, Ashton recognized that meaningful change required reaching children before unhealthy habits formed.
This realization led to creating FORM, a revolutionary health curriculum now implemented in hundreds of schools nationwide. Unlike traditional physical education that focuses primarily on sports performance, FORM teaches students the principles of sustainable health across four pillars: Functional Fitness (movement routines), Optimal Nourishment (balanced nutrition), Rest and Recovery (sleep and stress management), and Multiplied Maintenance (sustaining habits through life's seasons).
Ashton's approach addresses a fundamental problem in our educational system: we teach math yearly but relegate health education to a single semester. By providing a comprehensive framework that empowers students with practical knowledge about caring for their bodies, FORM equips the next generation with tools most adults wish they'd learned earlier. The curriculum's simple yet profound philosophy suggests that if everyone maintained basic health practices consistently—not perfectly—we could prevent the majority of America's health problems.
Ready to learn how this innovative approach is transforming health education? This episode unpacks not only Ashton's inspiring personal journey but also practical insights about entrepreneurship, pivoting business models, and creating systems for sustainable growth. Join us for a conversation that might just change how you think about health education forever.
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you know, if you think about it with America, it's like if every single person had a good routine of movement, if every single person was eating most of the time good quality, clean foods, if they were sleeping enough, managing their stress, not on social media all the time. If everybody in America did that, we probably wouldn't have all this health crisis stuff.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Gym Breakcast, where I sit down and, you know, just talk through all those visionary ideas with special guests that come to us during our normal daily activity and gym break. Today I have a special guest on Ashton Ashton. Why don't you tell everyone a little bit about you and what you do and we'll kind of get rolling here on kind of discussing through your story and your legacy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, thanks for having me on. This is fun, love connecting with other people who care about health and fitness. And yeah, my name is Ashton. I live in Franklin, tennessee, just a little south of Nashville, married to an amazing wife, kelsey. She is a nurse, she's been a nurse for years and she's graduating this year to be a nurse practitioner. So she's she's amazing. We work with K through 12 schools and parents who have K through 12 students all over the United States and we work with them to help their kids be healthier and to help build a foundation of health and fitness and nutrition and sleep, rest, recovery, community all that stuff while they're young, to help them build habits that are going to last their whole life. So we work with schools all over the US, parents and we have a platform that's completely done for them that helps, you know, kids learn about the different ways to make health simple.
Speaker 2:So that's interesting. What made you get into going this direction?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when I was a kid probably by the time I was a sophomore in high school I was about 300 pounds and did a lot of the sports played baseball, played football but just, man, like nobody really taught me like how to really be healthy Right, because you can, you know you can play football as a as a teenager in high school and it's like you just got football coaches yelling at you and you're, you know you're squatting 500 pounds and like nobody really taught you the form and you're eating whatever you want. And so I, you know I was, I was strong and I and I, but, but a lot of the 300 pounds was just excess fat and I just ate whatever I wanted. It was, you know, addicted to food, pre-diabetic, uh, just really struggle, struggle with that. You know it was made fun of a lot in high school because of that. And and, yeah, I, just one day I was like you know what I don't, I don't want to be that guy anymore. You know, um, I'm kind of tired of living this way. So, uh, ended up losing 110, 120 pounds, went from about 300 down to like 175, was my lowest, um, and, yeah, just started living that out and changing my lifestyle and the way that I lived and and um, and other people saw that I graduated high school and people were like bro, like what did you do? Like you were that guy, like you were the guy that didn't care about any of this stuff, like how are you not only, how did you do that, how are you maintaining it?
Speaker 1:After two, three years now, and so ended up just helping people in my parents' garage. You know I just graduated, was kind of going to local college and living with my parents and I was like man, like come hang out, come work out with me, and so I threw some rusted you know Craigslist stuff that I found you know barbells and stuff in my parents' garage and just started training people and kind of working out with people and helping people and ended up getting certified as a trainer and got a bunch of other certifications and I ended up getting a full degree from Arizona State, you know, for health and nutrition and all that stuff. So I helped for years and it went great. And then COVID hit and that was an interesting time because we grew grew that into like a small like studio where we would do like group classes, you know, personal training, coaching, all that type of stuff. And then COVID hit had to go fully online and that didn't go too horribly and we were able to build some good systems around it to where we helped you know, could help people wherever they lived.
Speaker 1:But, man, we just kept hearing over and over again, like man, I wish somebody would have taught me this stuff when I was young. You know, because there's so much content and you know, if you Google how to be healthy on Google today, I mean there's. Last time I checked it was like 9.6 billion results pop up, and so there's so much content, there's so much stuff. People are so confused and so we were really able to just simplify it for people and give them simple frameworks. Make it not easy, because it's, you know, it's not always easy, but make it simple so that they weren't, their heads weren't swimming, you know, and so, uh, but we just kept hearing like, over and over again, like man, I wish somebody would have made this simple for me, like this in high school, you know, like in school, like nobody taught me these principles, nobody taught me this stuff. And so, you know, now I'm 40, 50 years old, I own this great business and my health is is, you know, is trash, and I got you know diabetes and I, whatever, whatever the case was.
Speaker 1:And so it was like man, like we just kept hearing that over and over again, and I read a statistic on I think it was the CDC's website that said, uh, it's estimated that by the year 2030. Um, so I read this in 2020. So I was like man 10 years away uh, that by the year 2030, uh, 86% of adults will either be uh, it's 86.3% of adults will either be overweight or obese on a BMI scale. And I was like that's nuts, like that. It flashed back to watching that movie. Uh, it was called Wally, like where they had those, they go in the space, shaming about that all the time. And I'm, and I'm like man, like that's like real life Wally, like an 86 point that's almost 90% of people and some some demographics that even quoted them as as being even higher than that.
Speaker 1:And I'm like man, like how do we fix this? You know, like it's really been over the past 30 or so years that America and and the world in general, but particularly America, like it's just gone way downhill every year and it's just plot graphs Like the all that study. All I was looking at is just over the past years, like based on the projections, based on where the curve is is where it's going. And I'm like man, like what do we do to fix that? Because we're not going to have an America, we're not going to have a world, we're not.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I was talking to a guy in the military and he was like man, like a lot of these officers are, are, you know? Really, they talk about national security, like our health crisis in America. It's national security because they can't get, they can't get people to sign up for the military and so they're having to lower their standards to get more people in, but then we have a less effective military. So it's just, it's a, it's just a big problem. And it's like man, like how do we fix that, you know? And it's not a, a big problem. And it's like man, like how do we fix that, you know? And it's not a, it's not easy, it's not a quick, it's not a. There's nothing, it's not, it's complicated and it's not a, really a fun, fun problem to really try to diagnose.
Speaker 1:But I believe, really the way to fix that, you know, each generation continues to get worse and worse Because nobody cares about health education anymore and nobody cares about teaching these kids. It's an afterthought, pe is barely done anymore. The health, you know, they get one semester of health in high school. It's just like nobody cares. And then they get math every year and English every year, and it's just it's not prioritized. And so I believe the way to change those trends over time is to equip and empower the next generation so that they, every generation, can get, get better and better and so um. So that's what we did. We put together this program and, uh, just, I just started calling schools and telling them about it and we want to change kids' lives and and teach them that foundation while they're young. So that's, that's a little bit of the story.
Speaker 2:That's a great story. Uh, you've been through a lot, um, a lot through there and I think everyone that comes on kind of has some sort of clarity moment at least. At least once, I've heard a lot of people have multiple clarity moments. You probably did in 2020 as well, right, which made you do that pivot that statistic you brought up. But two, I really want to kind of dive into your thought process and what you do to help the kids, because I know for me, for a fact and you've probably you kind of brought this up a little bit in your statistic that you know a lot of even business owners and people that are trying to do their own thing as an entrepreneur are having a hard time with their health.
Speaker 2:I mean, I did at one time I mean I used to be probably very similar to you. I was like I didn't have kids yet I still had a business, and now I have three young kids and it's like I have this 10 pounds that in the past that I'm like man, I could have got rid of this, I could have got rid of this. It was like so easy back in the day, and now I'm like man, I can't get rid of that last 10 pounds. I was like I know my calorie intake, I know that, I know that. I know how many carbs is in an apple for crying out loud Like I'm, you know, probably been like you where it's like I can pretty much diagnose calorie intake. But I'm getting off topic. But where I'm going out with this is how do you feel like the mental, the mental well-being of physical health has played the role, not just with the kids development, but I would say your development?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's tough because our kids, these days they have a lot of really unique challenges that we haven't seen before. You know, social media and the Internet, I mean it's just it just bombards them and so there's, you know, yes, there's physical health crisis, but it goes hand in hand with mental health. You know, and I mean that's what we talk about when we have, you know, content on comparing to others and, uh, stress management and social media and emotional health and sex ed, like we have all that stuff, cause it's like it doesn't matter how mentally healthy and what you're doing there, if your body is is is not functioning Right, but also, on the other end, you can be super fit and jacked and whatever, and then your mind isn't right and it's like that's that's worse, and so and I see that a lot, I mean that, that story, you know, I talk about that all the time where it's like man, you know a lot of, and I love sports, right, I played baseball, I played football, I did wrestling, I did all that. But I think a lot of times in schools nowadays it's all sports-based.
Speaker 1:Pe is all sports-based. You don't have to take PE if you play a sport, which, again, love sports and I think it's a part of it. And so what you get is you have all of these kids where their health is only centralized around sports, and so they graduate. Maybe a few of them play in college. Very, very, very few play professionally and then they graduate and their whole fitness and health was all based on that sport. They don't do it anymore. So then they they get. You know, they have all this autonomy, they could eat whatever they want. They get the and eventually it catches up with them when they're 35, with three kids and a full-time job, and they're like man, like I used to be a college athlete, I used to be so fit, like I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do now because it's not. It was all centralized around that, and so that's.
Speaker 1:I think what a lot of schools are doing is it's, and then kids don't understand how to take it. You know they don't. They don't really know anything about the body, they don't really know anything about how to take care of it, how it functions. You know all that. And so they're playing these sports to get the credit, but then they graduate and they don't have any knowledge of how to do anything outside of that sport. No-transcript.
Speaker 1:That's been a big thing that I've seen as we've worked with more and more schools. It's like, oh yeah, like they play sports or they just run around and play PE and it's like that's great, I love that movement, get them moving as much, as much as you can, because they're sitting all day. But it's also we have to be intentional to teach them the principles and what they need to do so that when they don't have that teacher anymore, when they don't have the sport like, they understand how to take care of themselves. They may not choose to right, you still have to make the choice and put in the work. But you know we're kind of setting them at a disadvantage a lot of times. You know is what I see.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's. It's funny because the big thing I took away from that is it's called PE, physical education. It's like sports is yeah, they're, they're teaching and you know I've you know I've worked quite quite a bit of professional athletes myself and I've seen the very similar thing that you have myself and I've seen the very similar thing that you have. It's once they retire from the sport they had, they had, you know, coaches giving them their food intake, teaching them like what to eat, like determining their physical activities every day. They didn't really have anyone teaching them, teaching them how to fish, right. So they come out and they're like I don't even know how to keep up this regimen or this routine because I don't have any accountability anymore.
Speaker 2:So I think starting young and helping them kind of understand and I think it does twofold right, and you can probably explain it a little bit more than me but I think it doesn't just help them understand the basics of physical education and how to help them learn how to handle and control their own body, but that also gives them a sense of confidence and helps them in their mental clarity and being like, oh, I can achieve something because I am learning something, seeing how to fail.
Speaker 2:And that is probably the one biggest benefit I see from sports for kids is it's a way for them to learn how to fail. And that is probably the one biggest benefit I see from sports for kids is it's a way for them to learn how to fail without any drastic measures. You know, and I think, but going even deeper into that, I would say you know the physical education is the, the micros, and so what really within your programs and what you do, how do you kind of develop these programs? Is it school specific? Is it student specific? How do you really dive into that kind of assessment?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we have. So it's a. It's a curriculum that we, that we came up with it, and it's an online digital platform that the teacher gets access to and then they facilitate it. There's some schools that use it and it's like a self-paced, like online program. The student just goes through it but it's totally done for the teacher. All the content on the, all the resources are in there, and then they facilitate it and teach it to the students and then our team kind of helps them to, you know, customize it to what their use case is.
Speaker 1:Some, you know, some schools just use it in in like a classroom, like health class type settings. Some schools are using it, you know, k through 12 and PE and in health class. So we kind of help them with hey, here's the platform, here's how you're going to pace it out. And then the platform makes it really simple and breaks it down into four main areas, and so it's called the FORM curriculum, and FORM is just an acronym for the four kind of areas of health that we break it into and it's really simple. It's not anything fancy or new, um, but the F stands for functional fitness. So, um, you know how do we help kids create sustainable and simple routines of how to move their body. And so we talk about, um, you know the curriculum it is. It is, you know some of it is. It is an academic curriculum, so it's, you know, you got to cover the standards and it is school, so it's a little more academic than you would think for, like an adult. You know program, but yeah, it's all about, you know, fitness, movement, how movement affects the body. You know we talk about the systems of the body and how they all work together and how movement helps each of them to function, you to function well together, all that stuff. And so how do we maintain and have a simple routine of movement in every season? That's the first pillar. Second pillar is nutrition, so it's called optimal nourishment.
Speaker 1:And so we talk about two main principles for kids One is food is fuel and one is food is fun. And how do we balance those two things? And I think a lot of times, you know, in our culture, we talk about cheap meals and we talk about cheap days, and it's like I get what we're saying and I've said that before, but I think for kids, especially teenage girls, it's how do we give them a positive thing to think about, rather than, hey, I'm cheating on something or I'm, and again, if you're in training for something specific or you're on a diet or something that's a little different. But we talk about food as fuel. So saying, hey, uh, you know most of what we eat. Just like a car needs gas to go, uh, it needs oil, it needs all these things. Our body needs, uh, food to fuel, right. So we talk about calories, we talk about all the different macronutrients and micronutrients and all that stuff that your body needs, and then and then we also balance that out with food is fun. Hey, sometimes it's okay to enjoy food is fun and to celebrate and and feast with family and friends and and enjoy yourselves. You know, most of the time, fuel, some of the time you know fun, and so we kind of talk about those principles and teach them. You know how to take in the right things for nutrition. So that's the second pillar.
Speaker 1:Third pillar is rest and recovery. So you know how do we have, I think, a lot of people with recovery where we are, and I used to be horrible at this, especially when I was younger. It was. You know, you're training really hard in the gym and then you do zero stretching, zero cool downs your recovery and you're not. And so, um, and then when something does happen, when you get injured or you tweak something or something you know, then, oh man, now I need to, like, pour on the recovery. And so we talk about how do we have preventative routines of recovery? So how do we sleep? Um, you know, how do we focus on sleep? How do we focus on rest? How do we? You know, we talk about stress management and stretching and active recovery and all the stuff you know that you need there. So that's the third pillar. Fourth pillar is the M, so it's multiplied maintenance. How do we maintain the other three pillars and multiply it into the lives of others in every season? And so we talk about community and the people we surround ourselves with.
Speaker 1:We talk about setting the right goals, you know, for health. A lot of times people like we know we need to be healthy, right, like we know, like, ok, I need to take care of myself, and but we don't really understand why a lot of times, and it's just OK, it's just something I got to do, but when you can really attach health to a goal that you have in your life, whether that's being a good dad or a good mom, or being as proficient as you can in your work and being able to be really productive and having the energy that you need, or whatever it is like. And you can center that goal around helping you do what you're called to do and helping you serve others better, like it makes health to where it's. It's helping you, versus you becoming like a slave to all this, just stuff that you have to do all the time. You don't know why you're doing it.
Speaker 1:And so we talk about goals, we talk about social media, we talk about the friends, the friends we surround ourselves with. We talk about how to fit health into your schedule. I mean, you can have the best plan in the world, but if you don't do it and you don't fit it into your schedule, it just doesn't matter, and so, um, so that's the stuff we talk about there. And then we add in emotional health and social health and stuff like that. So we break it down really simple uh, for these kids into these four areas and the whole point is hey, in every season of life, have a simple routine to each of those four pillars and it's like, and it's, it's so simple that it's like, okay, like I can do that. And you know, if you think about it with with America, it's like if every single person had a good routine of movement, if every single person was eating, most of the time, good quality, clean foods, if they were sleeping enough, managing their stress, stretching, not on social media, all the time, surrounding yourself with the right friends, having simple goals, like if everybody in America did that, we probably wouldn't have all this health crisis stuff. Like that would fix 85% of the stuff that people are dealing with. You know, because a lot of it's preventable. Now again, you know, I also know people that are super duper healthy and they get cancer or they have something. You know, sometimes you can't control it, but you know, if we could have people walking in those four areas consistently not perfectly, but consistently that would fix a lot of the areas.
Speaker 1:And then each of those pillars, we teach into depth how to create those routines, the education that they need to know about.
Speaker 1:You know, each of those areas. And then we help. We help teachers with different practical challenges and things that they can do to help students. Like you're saying with the sports right, help them practice what they're learning in that class, while they're in that class where they have the covering of a teacher and it's not. Hey, you learned all this stuff. Now, all of a sudden, you're done with the class, you're not in that setting anymore, you have to do all this stuff. Let's help them practice and reflect on hey, like I tried to do movement four to five times this week, like I only got two, like why is that? How can we do better next time? What got in the way, like where the teacher can kind of help them coach the practical like lifestyle? Uh, cause that's the hardest part, you know. So that's how we break it down, that's how we help, uh, teachers and schools, and every school is a little different, but, um, that's the general kind of gist.
Speaker 2:No, I love it man, I love the, I love the direction and and I, uh, I think overall I think, because this is really a cast that's really designed for that visionary type mindset I want to kind of dive in. I want to kind of dive in and really look back at not just your wins but like your pivoting points that helped get you to this situation and some of the strategies you've kind of possibly taken to kind of get to where you are now. One of the key things that you brought up earlier on in this cast was you talked a lot about 2020 being the time of like. I mean, I don't even like to say the word because this is also going to go on YouTube and I don't want to get like any sort of like hit. But you know, like 2020 was a hard time. I know for my, my firstborn, it was hard. He was luckily born six months before before it hit With.
Speaker 2:That said is, I know it was mentally draining on us, it was mentally draining on studios and you talked a lot about how you had a space and you had to do a pivot. So can you kind of put me through that mindset of like? What kind of got you to, what kind of helped you get through that and actually make your shift. Because I know, as a business owner and a visionary at heart, like you know, there's a lot of ego attached around ideas and directions and height of where you're trying to go with a certain thing, and how many people do you hear say, oh, just keep up with the same one and just keep pushing it and just keep pushing it. And so I know that you had to make some drastic changes there, and so can you kind of go into that mindset and kind of what got you to not just where you're at but like the curriculum, what helped you come up with the curriculum and and maybe some of your strategies on reaching some of these schools?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so 2020, we pivoted fully online, kept a lot of our same clients, got some other clients and started focusing a little bit more on helping, you know, business owners and successful people with kind of like a done for you health program and successful people with kind of like a done for you health program. We would do all this stuff for them, coach them specifically on productivity and how health can help them to be. You know, health can be an asset to helping them, you know, make more money, all that stuff, whatever. And so we did that and kind of pivoted into that that year and it went OK wasn't quite as consistent and predictable as I would have liked it. And then my original vision of like OK, here's going to be like what we do, like here's going to be our thing, here's how we're going to make a lot of money, here's how we're going to help people. I thought we were going to do corporate wellness.
Speaker 1:So I, you know, 2021, into 2020, into kind of 2021, I tried to build out a corporate wellness program and just like failed, like it was horrible, like we didn't get any clients. We, I was, and I was in looking back to like part of it was like we weren't. That wasn't supposed to be what we did, cause obviously, what we're doing now is so much better, and but the other thing was I just wasn't taking action. I was creating all the slides and all the pitch decks and all the ideas, but I like go like pick up a phone and call somebody, like don't, like I wasn't doing anything, and so that was.
Speaker 1:That was a hard kind of year, year and a half of just like failing, just completely sucked at all of that like not fun. And and even before that, like in 2020, kind of coming into early 2021, I had the idea for the curriculum and I was like, oh, that'll be a cool little side project, little bonus for the corporate wellness people that we're doing. Hey, they can give this to their kids, not as like a throwaway project, but it's just kind of like, hey, yeah, this is kind of cool, like it's a side thing. And so we, we, we one of the pastors at my church, he, he writes a lot of kids curriculum. That's like what he mainly, uh, does. And so I was like, hey, man, he loves, he loves health and fitness probably more than I do. He like he, he loves it, and uh, and we message every day about you know we're kind of accountability.
Speaker 1:I say accountability partners, but like we message every day hey, here's nothing wrong with that, yeah. And so, yeah, we message every day hey, here's what I'm eating, here's what I'm doing, here's how I sleep. Hey, here's something I'm dealing with. You know, it's helpful to just get to kind of connect and and so I was like hey, like I have this idea, like here's the pillars that we teach to adults, how can we make this for kids? And so he helped to script everything out, put everything. You know, he was the one who like actually like wrote the content. Um, and I helped too, but I'm not great at like writing and like kids content. And so he put, put all that together. And so we started to put it in the course and it looked great. It was really cool.
Speaker 1:And and all the while, I'm like corporate wellness, like let's go, like let's, we're doing this, and every person I'd talk to would be like man, like okay, that's cool. Corporate wellness, like how's it going? And I'm like we don't have anybody yet. This is kind of sucking. And then I'd show them the kids stuff and it was pretty much in the platform and kind of done. We were still making some tweaks, we were piloting it with our church has like a little small, like private school that we were kind of piloting it with and and and I'd. You know, show them the platform. They're like man. Like the corporate wellness stuff is cool, but like this is awesome, like nobody's doing that. This is this looks, it's really well done. Even our first edition of it was really good. And I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Cool, cool, cool. But corporate corporate wellness like that's what we're doing.
Speaker 1:And eventually I just came to this place of like it just sucked. It was just we weren't doing anything, we weren't making any money, business was um, it just it was not a fun season. And so in May of 2022, I was trying to do the corporate corporate wellness stuff and just felt like God had spoke to me, my wife and he was like stop doing this the corporate wellness stuff and start calling schools. And so I was like all right, like I don't know anything about I. I honestly didn't really love school when I was a kid. Like I'm like, why am I in? I don't want to call schools. Like I don't know anything about education. I honestly didn't really love school when I was a kid. Like I'm like, why am I in? I don't want to call schools. Like I don't know anything about education, I don't know anything about their sales cycle, I don't know who I need to talk to. I don't know anything. And so I pulled up a list of um of schools. There's a website called nichecom and I just it just top schools in your area.
Speaker 1:And I just started calling schools. I'd call and I'd say, hey, do you know who's over your health and PE? And they transfer me to that person and I had a little script that I would use and and it wasn't very good, but I was super passionate. It was, yeah, it was like I was really bad. It was bad. I didn't know when to call, I didn't know this it was, I didn't know anything. It happens, man, you should look at my first YouTube video from like.
Speaker 1:And so I just started calling schools and I and I reverse engineered. I'm like man, like I want to have this amount of schools this year. And so I just reverse engineer those numbers. Hey, if I'm going to have that many schools, if I have a 20 percent close rate, you know that means I need to have this many conversations. Know, that means I need to have this many conversations. Uh, if I need to have that many conversations. Maybe I need to call this many schools because maybe five percent of those will actually have like real conversations.
Speaker 1:As I just broke down those numbers and I just that's all I did all day. Call schools period and I sucked at it and it was bad, and but I would get a hold of people and they, while my script wasn't very good, they could tell like I was passionate about what I was talking about and I was like man, like I really believe that this platform could one change your kids' lives, your students' lives, and it could also take a lot of work off of you and other teachers. And so people would meet with me and I had we closed some of our first schools. I think that first year I had 20, 25 schools that partnered with us by the end of that year. So that was fun, didn't know what I was doing with them. I was just like, hey, here's the curriculum.
Speaker 1:And I remember the first school I ever implemented with it went horribly. They had every one of their teachers at the whole school. Hop on, and I'm trying to. And we didn't have enough content. I mean, back then the curriculum was just there was an animated video and a little auto-graded quiz and some workout videos, that's it Like. It was like super bare bones and there wasn't enough content to cover what they were needing to use, so it didn't go. It was. It was not fun, but I figured it out and and looked at how we needed to implement what they were doing and we grew. So, yeah, I had about 25 or so schools that year and just kind of kept up that, that process of calling letting them know what we're doing, and then we have way better ways of reaching out to schools now and and and processes for that and and. So we've learned a lot. But yeah, it was fun, you know, looking back, so fun in its own way.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of you know. I probably should have broken those questions up so it was easier for the audience to digest. But, kind of going back to your original kind of part of your story, when you first started and you were going after corporate and then you made the shift, like to me, I see that all too common and there's nothing wrong with it. I think the corporate actually helped you, you know, like, because it helped you find, like you said, it helped you find your path to the kids. If you never did the corporate, you probably would have never found your path towards the kid and said, said, ok, this is working, this is not, and maybe I just have more, you know, passion towards the kid side. Maybe that's really what it came down to. Right, you were less fearful and less resistant, but yeah, I was like all I heard there was strictly validation mode. Man Like you were like let's test this stuff, let's find our audience.
Speaker 2:And then finally something started to hit and I think that a lot, of, a lot of people in visionary type roles get to the point where they're. They do want to try a whole bunch of different things, but that does not stop they get to continue because they don't have someone else to go back and forth on, like you did with your, with your pasture, to be like, hey, let's just like give this a shot, let's kind of focus on let me help give you a nudge and help hold you accountable, focus on let me help give you a nudge and help hold you accountable, and so, yeah, that's, that's great. That is, that doesn't come so easy for a lot of people, right, like, hey, find that, find that that audience, and just kind of roll with it. A second thing that I heard there was that you did. You finally took focus on execution, right, like it's not just, especially at the beginning, it's not always about strategy, it's about executing.
Speaker 2:And I think you kind of flipped the switch there and, yeah, you went from I'm just going to create all these decks, which is kind of strategy in a way. It's like let's create these decks so we can look good and and we can like try to prepare, prepare, prepare. And then I think you realize I just need to execute and I just need to go into like starting to reach out to some of these. I'd love to get into that first phone call with you. Do you ever go back? Do you ever go back on that first phone call? Do you have it like recorded and do you ever like go back and listen to it, or do you just cringe and try to keep it out of your memory?
Speaker 1:Like my like when I would cold call or like yeah, yeah, that first call.
Speaker 1:You said that you had yeah yeah, I mean, I, I didn't record any of them. Really it would have, it would have been cringy, you know. But you, you know, that's the thing, man, like I think focus is so powerful because it's it was hey, drop everything you're. And literally all I did, eight to nine hours a day, was call schools when they were open. That's the period and I would call certain schools. You know, I would start off calling schools in Eastern time zone Cause they were ahead of my time. You know, now I'm in central and I would call them at first and then once I got to the afternoon, all those schools were were out, you know cause it's three or four o'clock, and I would call Pacific schools. You know, schools in Pacific time.
Speaker 1:So I could, it was just, man, like just doing it, like getting up, setting a goal, hitting your numbers and focusing like relentlessly on that and seeing, you know, what could happen.
Speaker 1:It was just I had to take action, you know, and I was always someone that, like the issue with the corporate wellness stuff wasn't primarily like I wasn't taking action or I wasn't a hard worker, it just like I don't know, like I just couldn't get it going, like it's just the weirdest and I still have some of those like pitch decks and slide decks, like in my Canva and all that stuff that I look back at and I'm just like but it does that failure and that like struggle and figuring that out like becomes a part of your story and it becomes something like that you're so thankful for Cause I'm like man, like that was so not working, I was hitting a wall and now I'm in this industry and I'm in this market where there's such a huge gap and such a huge, huge need just in.
Speaker 1:I mean there's nobody else is doing what we're doing, none of these curriculum company. I mean it's just crazy. And so it makes you really thankful Like man, like even when I'm in the midst of busy season and I have to call 70 schools a day and I'm just like drowning, I'm like this is a heck of a lot better problem than having nothing and having to struggle through that.
Speaker 2:So it just makes you really thankful of like man, like it's just, it's awesome what we're doing you know so, and the fact that you have a busy season not that you have one, but that you you recognize, and yeah, I mean, I mean it's pretty obvious You're probably not calling the schools during the summer, right?
Speaker 1:It's funny. It's funny, our busy season, like that's been the other thing that's been hard to get used to, cause with, with, with fitness and with gym stuff. It was like you kind of have a busier time of year, like January, all the new year stuff. But like with with schools, they they buy, like they're not usually changing their curriculum and what they're doing in the middle of the year, right, like they're not going to get into the fall and say, hey, like October, we're just going to randomly do this new thing and buy and all all their budgets renew in the summer. And so you know, all of you know we're we're renewing all of our current schools, you know closing all of the new schools, um, that we're, that we're going to work with, we're implementing with all of those. All that's happening really from late April through August. And so it's like everything is at once. So it's like, and then before then you have to do all the outreach and connect with everybody and feel, feel what you're doing.
Speaker 1:So it's it's been a, it's been a learning process and I feel like we finally have somewhat of a handle on it of like man, like in this season, what do I need to be doing? You know in Q1, what's the focus is? It's not so. We don't close a ton during Q1 because it's the middle of the semester. A lot of them are going to close, you know May through September and so, and that's what we've found. You know from other. You know people that are selling into education, like we've. Hey, that's kind of how the typical thing works. So that's been another thing. That's you have to figure out and learn and when the cycle is, and it's just different.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and that's, and I think, one thing that I can see which has helped you kind of get past some of the hurdles. I see a lot of the prospects that come to the door for me because, you know, being in branding and marketing, I pretty much dealt with a wide range of different types of companies right Before I finally narrowed down and did my validation and did who I was working with. And I see a lot of the prospects come in and they're just unwilling to understand that premise of growth. They just try to throw everything off on other people and say, well, like I'm not really going to lead by example and learn this myself before I kind of vet it to an employee or to grow stuff. And so I see you've, you've taken that on like you.
Speaker 2:You, you went in and you lost your ego. You didn't have any ego because you were able to. You probably I mean we all have egos, but I mean you were able to look at the corporate thing and it was probably hard, but you eventually said you know what? We just have to make the shift because for the well-being of not just my well-being and the passion of direction. But this is where it's leading me, this is the lead journey that I'm supposed to be on, so you were able to make that shift and even hearing you talk about hey, I had to take one call and I've slowly continued to learn the market and basically just take that 1% growth day after day and see what was working and being able to shift that.
Speaker 2:I think that that's very hard for a lot of people, including myself, you know. I think it happens to all of us, and so you talked a lot about at the beginning that you and your wife's the nurse practitioner. You're more of the physical side, so she's probably more of the health side, the medical side. So do you guys feel like you compliment each other? Does she help in the business at all? Is it both, just both of you? Do you guys have teammates, uh, or anything of that nature?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she, she doesn't really work in the day to day of the business. Um, she, yeah, she has. She was a nurse tech for years and years before she graduated as a nurse, and she's been a nurse for four years, five years, and then now she'll graduate in August with her nurse practitioner. So she, she, she doesn't work in the business. She, we do think and are on the same page about health and taking care of our bodies. And because she's, she works in the ICU and she just sees people day after day like man, like they didn't do that Right, they smoked their whole life, they, you know their, their foot had to be amputated cause of diabetes, like all that stuff, and so, um, so she kind of has to treat people that don't do the things that we teach, um, and so I'm trying to help kids to grow up so that they don't have to go see her, and so, um, yeah, we're definitely on the same page.
Speaker 1:She's awesome, she's, she doesn't work in the day-to-day the business, but she, you know she, she grew up and her dad, uh, her, her parents are great, but her dad worked in the same job, uh, at a very stable job, and worked his way up slowly, um, throughout his whole career and he's a VP and he's he's awesome. But it was very stable, you know, and very stable home, very, you know, you get a paycheck, bonuses. And then she, you know, went from that to hey, we're going to build a business from scratch and there's a bunch of risk and there's a bunch of not stability, you know, when you're failing and when you're figuring it out. And you got a high, it's just, and so she's been awesome and super supported, totally believes in what we're doing. She, you know, she, she, she loves, uh, she eats great, moves well, sleeps good and we, we practice both of us, you know, practice what we're talking about in the curriculum and so, yeah, she's, she's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's uh, sounds like you guys have a very similar dynamic that me and my wife have. You know, I'm a brander In some ways. I educate over helping companies and individuals kind of find their why, their differentiator, all that fun stuff. Basically the psychological counterpart for businesses and brands, right when my wife is a family trauma therapist. So she, you have that yin and that yang, you know, and my wife does the same thing. She's she's, she's not very she's like you do your business, you do what you have to do she's like. But I need the, I need the, the data, the month to month stable income coming into the household. So I feel you on that one. So it is all just you right now.
Speaker 2:I know you said that you've enhanced and grown some of your processes, some of your processes. Does that mean it's just you? You still just continuing to learn those processes, grown, advance those, or have you started to take on? And the reason I'm bringing this up is because you owned a brick and mortar for a little bit of time. You had a physical location, that's a local type business, and now you are on online and I think one of the biggest pain points I see, just in general, it doesn't matter the type of business, how different the marketing and the way that they have to grow. That vision of what they want differs from a local market versus. Hey, I have to work on the whole. You're working through the whole nation for crying out loud, like how did you, how did that mindset shift happen for you? How do you continue to like learn the marketing side and or the branding side, to like kind of keep yourself from doing those tactics that probably wouldn't be as effective for you?
Speaker 1:yeah, so we we actually made uh, we have a full-time guy that works uh with us. He uh uh, we actually hired my brother. He uh, he's great at relationships and partnerships and so he does all of our like customer success. So when a school enrolls he implements with checks in with them throughout the year, renews them on stuff, and he's over all of our, a lot of our partnerships and stuff like that, and so, yeah, he's full-time. We have a full-time like virtual assistant he's great and then I've mainly just used contractors.
Speaker 1:So, like you know, for specific cause, a lot of, like I said, a lot of our stuff seasonal, so many leads and so much. So I do need somebody then. And so we've used, like I've used, like last year we used a bunch of interns from local colleges and I would come in. It was an unpaid internship and they would come in and I would train them in the sales process and we have all the systems for our sales processes and what we do and all that stuff, and so I would train them in that and they would do the calls and get us leads and all that stuff. So I've had that, I've had different sales guys that I've contracted and then a lot of what we do. You know, we've talked to so many schools over the past couple of years and it's part of it is not letting those relationships fall through the cracks and it's so we have. We use HubSpot as our CRM and and I can't call and follow up with every single school I've ever talked with and call new schools and implement with them. I mean it's just too much.
Speaker 1:So we built out a lot of systems this past year, this past fall, because at first for us it was like, man, nobody would talk to us. I just got to call, I just got to make opportunities. And then the second year it was better, but still got to call Like I just got to make opportunities. And then, you know, the second year you know it was better, but still like mainly like lead creation, like I need people coming in. And then this past year, man, like the stuff that we did just worked out of word of mouth. I spoke at a lot of conferences, I was on different podcasts, it just worked really well. And then we'd have like a lot of these schools are in like forums worked really well. And then we'd have like a lot of these schools are in like forums. So you know, there'll be like a school association. All the teachers in there are in a forum and somebody will post a question. And it happened three or so times this past year where somebody would hey, what do you guys do for PE and health? And you know three teachers out of that. You know, hey, we use this program and it works great. And I'm getting like 50 leads from 50 different schools in like one day and I'm like, how am I supposed to? How am I supposed to call these? How am I supposed to follow up? Like nuts, I'm trying to call. And so so it was, I mean, an amazing problem, like it goes back to hey, like I'm so thankful for that problem, cause that's a way better problem to have then. And so this past year it was like okay, like we just got bogged down.
Speaker 1:So this year we redid all of our systems, have all new processes and automations and all that stuff to allow us to, you know, follow up with those people that come in in a really quality way. But then all the people I mean I have three 400 schools that we've talked with over the past couple of years and the main thing was like man, like I want to be following up with them every year, but I don't have time to like personally call every single one of those things. And so part of is hiring people, and then the other is we have crazy segmented lists of you's why they didn't close. Did they close? Not close because of budget, or because of it just wasn't a good fit, or there wasn't interest, or it was bad timing or whatever. And so we have all these different lists that we can segment and send personalized follow-up to those people where it seems like it's coming from us, um, but it's really, uh, just a way to follow up. So we've streamlined all of that. And then we do a lot of our outbound stuff. I mean, we get a lot more word of mouth now I speak at different conferences, so we'll get a lot of leads from that. We have a lot of great partnerships that we have with different people in curriculum or education that we get a lot of stuff from.
Speaker 1:But then right now a lot of our cold outreach instead of just cold calling, we have a system where we send out handwritten letters. So there's a great company that does that and once I get you know I had somebody scrape and go out and get all the decision makers at all the schools in certain areas and segment that, and so we actually send out. It's a. It sends out a handwritten letter to them written with a real pin on a real envelope, hand address, like with a real stamp, and it sends out a handwritten letter just telling them about our platform and it's just a super genuine, like simple sales message, not very long. And then the back of that card has our featured in USA Today article on it so kind of that credibility, with the genuine handwritten. It's written with the real pin and then all of our follow-up is on that letter. So it's not a cold call.
Speaker 1:Hey, can I, you know, do you have five minutes so I can tell you about this thing? Or hey, what are you? You know who's over? Like, cause, a lot of times we get hung up on like a lot of people see that. So, uh, so we follow up in a really genuine way. Hey, I sent you a letter Like did you get it? Like that's the follow-up and it. Hey, we're going to give them the pitch and talk them through that. Hey, here's where I had sent you. If they did get it, then you can start that conversation there. But it's been a really cool way to get a lot of engagement. So we're automating a lot of that, where we'll follow up on those letters via email and then some of our people will follow up and call people asking them about it, and so, yeah, there's a lot of really cool systems that we're figuring out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot of really cool systems that we're figuring out. So it's one of those situations that, going back to you, going back to the model of the model of membership and retention, you know, on a month to month basis, compared to hey, you kind of have to learn the separation between hey these people are with us and they pay a reoccurring, but these people now you're like oh there, it's, it's, if we don't keep up with these people, they'll Wendell away, they'll go away. So forget, forget, and so you have to learn that one, like what you mentioned earlier, which, really, which, a couple of things that really sparked my interest which were you know your brother.
Speaker 2:Your brother is very relationship oriented, he's a very connection oriented and so you have him in the right position for the right spot. He would from the the test that. So my I told you my wife's a family trauma therapist and we use this certain personality test. It's based that therapist shoes, it's the color, it's the color test. So I would call your brother an orange, which means he's very relationship, very connection based, and that's usually sales people. Right, that's usually people that like to connect. I do the sales too, you probably do the sales too, but there does come a point when it's like but it kind of burns you out a little bit oh yeah, I'm, I'm not.
Speaker 1:I, you know, and my and my brother too he's. He's a lot more likable than I am, like I get along with people, but I'm like he just meets people and like I mean we'll travel together, I'll go to different conferences and he'll come with me and we'll meet somebody you know at a restaurant and he's just like cracking up with them. I'm like you met that guy. Like how do you like I know it's me?
Speaker 2:man yeah.
Speaker 1:That type of stuff and so he's great in that. But yeah, with the sales man, I I I'm pretty tenacious, like I like I follow up people with people. I mean I have 50 times I mean it's just I'm very, but it does, it does. I'm not a natural like just killer sales guy. Like I do it because I have to and I'm excited to get somebody in that full time like crushing that role. But man it is, it does kind of kind of take a toll.
Speaker 1:But I but also to you, like I am a lot better, I feel, like at sales than I am at marketing. Like I, how we reach out to schools is kind of sales and marketing together, cause like we market by sending the letter but then we're at salespeople following up on that and so it's kind of that's a little different, cause we also work with homeschool families and stuff too. So they buy just directly on our website and just get all like I don't meet with them and stuff like that. So we have that and that's great, it's more automatic. But I'm not as good with like how do I reach those people and how I get them to buy on the website and like we do a decent job and we have good opt-in rates and conversion rates and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But it's like I'm a lot better at the sales of just like I'm just going to grind and call people and my tenacity is going to outdo yours Like that's, that's on the house and I'll say back to your, back to your original point and I say this to the studio owners all the time too is very similar how do you have the corporate and then you have the personal and you found out what works and you went with it. Like I say the same thing in marketing to a lot of people, like I'm the opposite of what you'll hear. A lot of marketers Like you have to do everything, you have to be out here. You have to be out here. It's like no, find something that works and work with it. And then, once you feel like you've not gonna say exhausted it, but just to kind of not put all your eggs in one basket, once you feel like one has kind of really started working for you, then yeah, sneak in some budget towards another one, but or different audience, because you're right, an online, an online, that's a whole different consumer. One of them is B2B. You have a B2B market, which is relationship based, and then you have a B2C market, which is the online. So they're completely different markets and most likely, they're completely different price points too, because you're working with a B2C market, right. So you do have to kind of say, all right, well, we want to work on this over here, but maybe it's not the time, maybe let's just focus on this, because I don't have the time or the energy. But a lot, of, a lot of studio owners, for instance, that I talked to, they'll they'll be like oh, we want a whole e-comm brand. They'll like be online. They'll be trying to do e-comm stuff. And I'm like dude, you're a brick and mortar man, you don't need. That's a whole different strategy. Like, no one wants to buy your shirt online. Like, they want to work out like, use it. There's strategies around it, of course, that you can implement, but like, but like, just keep them in your location and make sure they compliment right. So back to just, so I don't get off topic here.
Speaker 2:Back to what you were kind of saying and I know we're running close on time here but you found what was working and then you just kept improving it. You found systems and I think the biggest thing there you really focus on was the retention. Yeah, I think that you know. I think that eventually, yeah, starting to focus a little bit more on getting out of your comfort zone with a little bit of the marketing or branding could, could help you. But I think that you're nailing it and you have, like, you found your marketing direction and you're good at it and your sales direction, and there's nothing wrong with that, and so we get our current schools to renew like that's, that's, that's, and that's exactly that should be your main goal, cause it's easier, it's so it's so nice going into each year, like, okay, my floor of what I did last year, my, you know, my ceiling of what I did last year is my floor, you know.
Speaker 1:Hey, I have we'll, we'll, we'll work with. Uh, we took on like 120 or so schools this past year, probably do like 200 ish, maybe a little more, just depends on what we're feeling for this year and it's like I already got 100, 120 percent, you know, and we have about an 85 percent renewal rate. It usually goes pretty well, so, about 85 of us. So that's so just so helpful for, like, predictability and projections and consistency. It's just like, hey, like we're just serving them really well and most of of them are new to do and that's been, that is really nice.
Speaker 2:I will say, yeah, oh, and that's the thing it's. I'm not going to say it's the easy route, but it kind of is. There's nothing wrong, it's. It's a very similar concept, very similar concept to studios, how I say, hey, like, really focus on retention more so than you do your legion. And that's the beauty with it is you have a waterfall effect, right, like you just mentioned a waterfall, and you found a way to do a waterfall effect without having a reoccurring model.
Speaker 2:I think that's that's beautiful and, yeah, it's easier. Why would you? Why would you? And it saves you money and time because you don't have to hire many people. So, learning that process and that's a fun, like you said earlier, that's a fun process to go through. It sounds like you're doing a pretty good job at it, but I'm going to leave it at that. We could probably chat even longer. I'd love to dive in even more. We finally started getting into it after I'm in Arizona, so it's 1030 for me and I have three young children, one up with one home from school because of pink eye. So I get much sleep last night, after the conversation we had earlier about sleep um and where they can find you, and then maybe just give one quick takeaway from the last couple of years that you think could help someone improve what they're doing in their business yeah, uh, yes, people can connect to our.
Speaker 1:Our website is forum educationorg, so just f-o-r-m. Educationorg, um, that'll take you. You can check out the home school. You can check out the public school stuff. We do private education. You can all of our stuff's there. So you have that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one thing I'd say from the past couple of years that's been really helpful is to like break down. I feel like the most revolutionary thing for me was breaking down your numbers and knowing them. And I think, like for me, like and and and. When we had interns come in from colleges, like that's all we had them do is hey, if you need to book this many calls, here's how many calls you need to be making, here's how many people you're going to connect to like breaking down, cause that gives you in a unpredictable in business where you're not in control of a lot of things and it's volatile and it's hard and it's.
Speaker 1:If you can have your numbers break down and you can control how you do that, hey, I I can't control primarily how many sales we get. I can't control primarily how many people are going to, are going to be open to talking to me and hopping on a demo or whatever, but I can't control the fact that I that I pick up this phone and I call X amount of people per day and then, based on that, you up this phone and I call X amount of people per day and then, based on that, you can tweak the numbers. Hey, I see, consistently, you know 10% of the people that I'm calling are booking versus 5%. Okay, sweet, you can adjust your numbers from there.
Speaker 1:But that, I feel like, has been so helpful for me in a place, in a business that's unknown, you don't know what you're doing and you're trying to figure it out, and it's volatile and it's not stable, and it's like here's these simple numbers and these simple lead indicators that I can control. That gives me control. And it's almost like sometimes, especially at first when I was making those calls, there would just be a piece that would come along with it where I'm like, okay, like I have all these tasks and I'm all, I have all this work, and it's like, okay, I'm, I'm in control of this, like I'm doing the things that I need to be doing, and then you adjust from there. So I feel like that's been a really helpful shift for me is just tracking your numbers, knowing you're hitting them, hitting them, and that allows, I feel like, just even mentally, for you to have like that peace and that control when there's a lot of things that you can't control, so nice man.
Speaker 2:Well, I do. I do appreciate you. You jump it on. I'll throw those links down in the show notes of the cast and on the videocast. I'm your host, zach Coleman, and thank you for everyone listening to the Jimbrick cast and we'll talk to you all later.
