The Fit to Grit Cast
Fit to Grit is an audio/video/newsletter hybrid featuring in-depth conversations with leadership within the athletic space. Guests range from top executives within the athletic space to professionals in adjacent industries with a proven track record of success working in the athletic industry.
We explore visionary ideas and practical strategies driving the industry forward, covering areas such as marketing, finance, branding, equipment, product development, biz dev, and more. Join us as we share actionable insights and real-world experiences while embodying the "fit to grit" spirit.
The Fit to Grit Cast
Leadership and Growth in the Fitness Industry
In this engaging episode, we dissect the essential dynamics between visionary and operational mindsets in the fitness industry, featuring insights from Vanessa Severiano, a veteran growth strategist. As a consultant with over 24 years of experience, Vanessa helps us understand why both roles are crucial for success. She shares thoughtful perspectives on how many fitness leaders can become overwhelmed by day-to-day challenges, leading to a reactive approach rather than a proactive one.
Throughout our conversation, we delve into the importance of creating a strong team culture that embodies the business vision, ultimately enhancing motivation and productivity. Vanessa points out that community engagement can be a double-edged sword; while digital marketing is crucial, grassroots strategies often prove far more effective in creating lasting relationships with customers. By optimizing community dynamics, gym owners can foster loyalty that outlasts temporary trends.
We highlight how many entrepreneurs get caught up in the validation of numbers, striving to reach unattainable benchmarks without addressing the fundamental aspects that create long-term sustainability. Discomfort can be a catalyst for growth, and leaders can harness it to initiate positive changes. We also discuss operational challenges and reflect upon how valuable it is to routinely engage with customers for improvement insights.
Vanessa’s experience elucidates the need for evolving leadership, and she encourages listeners to step out of validation mode into genuinely understanding their market. This episode is a treasure trove of strategies, encouraging both established and emerging gym leaders to cultivate their vision while effectively managing operational tasks. Don't miss Vanessa’s shared wisdom and actionable takeaways that can be applicable to any entrepreneur in the fitness realm. Tune in now to learn how to balance these crucial aspects and transform discomfort into opportunity in your business journey!
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90% of people don't want to do what's uncomfortable, and they end up working for entrepreneurs that are willing to get themselves uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Gym Break cast, where we sit down with professionals within the studio and fitness space and kind of just go through all those visionary ideas that come to all of us as entrepreneurs and leadership in the space, and kind of go through all those things that come through us, you know, while we're taking our normal daily gym break. So today I have a really special guest. We kind of ranted a little bit before the cast here, but I'll let her introduce herself and then we'll just kind of go from there.
Speaker 1:Hi everyone. My name is Vanessa Severiano. I'm a growth strategist, a consultant and business coach in the fitness and wellness space. I've been in the industry for 24 years now, so I'm aging myself. I'm 45 and I love jamming about fitness and wellness and all things business. So thank you for having me here today, zach.
Speaker 2:Well, of course, of course We've kind of we may have crossed paths a few times, just not ran into each other. You know, I was just recently at the Beyond Active event in New York a few months back and I also know that, as we've started, as I started to push more into building the connection in the industry, that your name's popped up quite a bit on LinkedIn and so I'm glad we finally got to have you on the cast and kind of go through this stuff. I think this is going to be a very special one, because I do feel like strategy is something that gets underutilized We'll just say that way underutilized, especially as studios and businesses in general grow to a certain point in business. So why don't we? You tell everyone a little bit about how you got into this and what got you to kind of evolve into the strategic side of helping entrepreneurs?
Speaker 1:Okay, great, so well. First of all, I just want to speak to your point about, like, my name coming up, and I think it's funny because, like, the wellness and fitness world is so big but it's so small at the same time and it's kind of incestuous, which is why I always tell people in the industry especially people that are coming up, never burn a bridge, because it is a small and incestuous world and you never know when you're going to come across somebody or when your reputation is going to be spoken about. So always act accordingly. So, yeah, I kind of got into the industry by accident.
Speaker 1:So back in 2001, when I graduated from college, I had gone to school and I have two degrees in interpersonal and organizational communication Everybody's probably like, what does that mean? And English literature. I always thought that I was going to be an attorney. But when I graduated school I was kind of like okay now what my nightmare was to be going to work every day wearing a suit and sitting in a cubicle. So when I got home from college, you know I grew up right outside of New York City and I just started applying for jobs and my one criteria was I want to work for a brand. That seems like fun. So I was 21. Right, so at that time that's your criteria. So I was like I don't want to go to work every day doing something. That seems like a drag.
Speaker 1:And so I was very fortunate to get my first job at the Crunch corporate office in New York City, and that was when Doug Levine, the original owner, was still there and we went through the process of selling the company for $90 million in 2001. That was like a bang buster price right to Bally Total Fitness. And then I was there through the brand conversion and the oversight of Bally's. And then obviously the Crunch brand has changed hands numerous times and now it's evolved to a fitness franchise, which is beautiful to see the brand growing.
Speaker 1:But I kind of started out by accident, I guess, and then one opportunity led to another. I ended up coming to Miami for Crunch on a work project, and when I came down to Miami and I saw the warm weather and the water you know, growing up in New York the water is brown I was like this is for me, was like this is for me, and so then I quit my job at Crunch and I moved down to Miami and I was on the opening team for the first two Equinox locations in Florida and then fast forward 24 years. One thing just led to another.
Speaker 2:That's how it works right.
Speaker 2:It's weird how our journey, our journey, dictates kind of the direction we go or the path that we end up taking and how it's a subconscious way, as you said before the cast if you're not growing right, if you're not growing you, who you are, your brand, how you're trying to evolve as a person.
Speaker 2:I mean, I started a little bit different but still ended in the same spot. I started in the sports industry because of my athletic background and it kind of took a shift. But I love that. I love that, especially the crunch side, because they're actually one of my clients, the corporate office I work with Danielle over there and the marketing director over there now. So it's good to have that, that subtle connection of you working with crunch. So one thing that you really emphasize is is especially for for new entrepreneurs that maybe want to get into the space and or these leadership roles that are trying to grow their studios to the next phase is what it really takes to be a builder. You know what it really takes to be someone that's really able to start looking at the visionary side a little bit more. And can you go a little bit further into that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think in our business and the nature of the beast is we can easily get caught just fighting fires, right. And so it's like employee issues, it's equipment issues, facility issues, right, member issues, I mean there's constantly like things that are coming up. Our business is so dynamic, there's so many people, there's so many operating hours, we're rarely closed and so we can easily get sucked in the day to day. But I think in business you need two things. You need one to have a visionary. So a visionary is somebody that can see the big picture. It's like where are you headed? Where do you want to go? What is the big picture vision for this business?
Speaker 1:And if you're a solopreneur or entrepreneur and you don't have necessarily a brick and mortar space, like, what is the vision for yourself? Right, where are you headed? And then you have the operator. Now, if you're an operator, you're more about executing, so you're in the day-to-day, so doing the thing right. And I think that for entrepreneurs and figureheads of businesses and leaders, you need to put on your visionary cap and you need to find people that can operate the day to day right. So you can't only be an operator. You have to have a strategic direction of where you're going. I think the best and most successful businesses are people that have a visionary that's kind of steering the ship, and then all the people that are putting the pieces of the puzzle together, that are operators. And some of the best partnerships that I've seen are people that bring complementary skills. So somebody that's a visionary and then somebody that's an operator, and when they come together that's when the magic happens.
Speaker 2:I do. I see it all the time. I mean there's a fine line there. I think I see it all the time. I mean there's a fine line there. I think, especially once you get to a certain size For studios I usually see it at about the 600K a year mark when they start realizing, oh, maybe there is something to values and vision and being a visionary, you know. But you see a lot of those big. You see a lot of those big like most successful brands out there. It's like they had.
Speaker 2:There's two of them. There's one that's really good with the visionary, the connection, um, going out there and and and trying to make change and lead the vision, and then there's always one that's an operator. When you get sucked into both, you know me, for instance, I'm at a point where I still, you know, I still need an operator, an integrator, if you want to call it an integrator. Like, I still need that, but I don't necessarily have the budget yet to do so, and I am an integrator at heart. I am an operator but I love building.
Speaker 2:I'm a creative as well. I create building. I'm a creative as well, I create brands. So having to balance that, knowing that, hey, like trying to slowly let the operations side go with teammates and then trying to find that very special person that can still hit those operational things could be a challenge. So I know that you talk a lot about how you can kind of turn challenges into opportunities with every skill. So why don't you talk a little bit about that, like, what kind of challenges do you see or mindset shifts do these owners have to make to kind of push themselves to taking those challenges and turning them into greater opportunities?
Speaker 1:I mean, just to speak to your point of like switching gears and putting on those different hats of, like visionary and operator, I think it also depends on, like what kind of business you're operating and what stage of business you're in, right. So like, for example, like me right now, I'm a consultant, right, and a business coach, so I have to wear both hats. I'm a business of one, right. So there's times that I would recommend, if somebody was in that position, to kind of like time block. And it doesn't necessarily mean like you have to like have it written on your calendar. I mean, yeah, those are all good things, but sometimes, like you become so structured and crazy that it's like impossible to keep up. So, like the reality is of, it is just like allocate time when you're thinking of the big picture, like what are the future projects you want to work on, what are, like, other services that you want to bring to light, other products, like what brands do you want to align yourself with and work with, and then, like that's like one part of your day where you're dedicating a specific amount of time and then another chunk of time when you're like doing the damn thing right, you're operating and putting all the pieces of the puzzle together.
Speaker 1:I think for leaders in fitness and wellness, it's just like very important to have that, to have a visionary and big picture to steer the ship for the team. The team needs to know, I think, like, especially like, at the end of the day, our business a lot of times, like the reality of it is, it's being run by people that are making $15 an hour working the front desk right. Like those are people that are interacting with your core business, your core base. They need to, especially with the younger generations. They need to feel connected with the vision.
Speaker 1:It's not just about, like, oh, the five hours that I'm working the front desk checking people in. It's like what does this business stand for? What's the mission, what's the vision? Where are we headed? And like do how can I be a part of that? Like people, especially now with, like social media and like work from home, like people are feeling like super isolated right. That's one of the reasons that what we do is so important fitness and wellness. We bring people together in real life, and so I think we have to remember that for our employees, too, like we have to make our employees feel life, and so I think we have to remember that for our employees too. We have to make our employees feel connected, and when we are steering the ship and constantly reminding our employees of why we do what we do and where we're headed, it makes the mundane day-to-day tasks seem a little bit more like elevated. It makes employees more motivated to go the extra mile if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's interesting that you say that topic, because I'm actually in the process right now. I had to switch from visionary. I'm creating a webinar right now on that exact topic, on the exact topic of employees and vision and values and finding the right people to come in, and I think there's something that's and you're right. I think that you know back. You know, I'll just say four years ago, you know, everyone was like oh, everyone's gonna work out from home, everyone wants to work out from home. And I think that funny enough is it actually started to do the opposite. People start getting depressed. People started being like, like me, for instance, I didn't want to work out from home anymore. Like I'm like I need to go back to finding my community going out there. And people do want to go get those experiences. They do want to have their community.
Speaker 2:And I don't think it just comes down to the members. I think it also comes down to the employees. How do we feel connected? How do we have a community that we can work with? And I think a big staple that happens within this industry is we need to bring in leadership. I think that we go strictly from, like you said, a manager behind a desk who may just be answering calls, that doesn't understand really how to lead to the owner of the company, who's kind of 99% of the time taking a back seat and just being like, okay, you run it and I'll run through the operations day to day and isn't really looking at how we can bring vision and values into this industry. And I think that that's something that's highly needed right now for people like us to be able to. You know, I'm not going to say us, but more like anyone who wants to find their mental clarity space Right.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm so glad you're bringing this up because, like you're speaking my language, I think like Right now, it's not about like. People think like oh, you develop an SOP, you develop a checklist and then you hand it to somebody and they just have to check the boxes. They just have to like do the checklist every day and like, that's it. And that's not the way it works. Right, people need to like. The most successful leaders know how to connect with people.
Speaker 1:We are in the relationship business. I know sometimes people say we're in the service business. Yes, we are, but we are in the relationship business. I know sometimes people say we're in the service business yes, we are, but we are in the relationship business and it all starts with the team culture and community within.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of times people are so focused in our industry on the clients and acquisition and how do we get more clients and what's the marketing language and how much are we spending on digital ads. What they fail to realize is when you start with the employees, then you're building, you're investing in your employees, you're basically investing in a retention strategy for all those people that you're acquiring, because if you're just constantly bringing in new members and bleeding them out the back end. You're not profitable. So I mean, the thing that people love to talk about that's like so sexy, is like you know their revenue, that they brought in how many new members, but they don't like to talk about all the unsexy stuff in business, which is systems, process and culture. Wash what moves the needle.
Speaker 2:And here's the funny thing, because here's what I try to preach all the time yes, building a team is an operations play, but a lot of times these studios will come into me and they'll be like here's our vision, here's our mission, here's our values. So put it down on a piece of paper. They'll hand it to me, and I know for a fact that none of them preached their own values. They just had someone go out there. They found someone that said hey, we're going to write down these values, this is what we're going to relay. And it's back to your marketing thing, since we do marketing.
Speaker 2:I saw this, I saw this. I was like I'm stuck behind a computer screen. It's not about technology. Digital marketing, all that stuff can work, but you should be involving it with your community. And I think that to really live by that vision, to really be able to grow a team, a very simple step would be as a leader or as an owner of a studio, you should be living those values every day. That's how you're going to build. That's how you're going to build, that's how you're going to lead by example, that's how you're going to understand the lingo, the behavior of the types of people that you want to bring in. You know, I think it's safe to say that you're right. Like we just don't, the studio industry just doesn't bring in those values or they don't look at it as a branding play.
Speaker 1:But you know why, Zach? Because managing people is fucking hard.
Speaker 2:It is. It is very hard Managing people.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I don't know if I'm going to get. I'm very passionate about this topic, so sorry for letting that slip, but it's just facts right, real talk. It's like managing people is really hard and it's easy to put up core values or a mission statement on a website or hang it up on your wall. It's hard to live it day in and day out. It's hard to get buy-in from employees. It's hard to deal with all of the moving parts of mentoring people, nurturing them, attracting good talent, like that's hard it is, it's probably the hardest thing, probably the hardest thing.
Speaker 2:It's the most important and the hardest is people right.
Speaker 1:But we can't run and operate our businesses without them, so we've got to figure it out right. The best leaders are people that really connect with people. I mean, that's what it's all about. It's like you can read. I've worked with so many people that you know all different kinds of people and different teams, ones that were amazing and ones that failed miserably. And I have to say that the people that are really amazing leaders are people that led with their heart. They were sincere, they were curious about other people, they cared about them, and I've worked with terrible leaders that have done all the research, read all the books, are the intellectuals, have the fancy degrees but are just not people. They're not a people person, right, and you have to be a people person in this industry. That's how you get ahead, and this is again just all about building relationships and learning how to get the most out of somebody.
Speaker 2:It could be intimidating for some people on here that are like, oh you know, because I think, going back to your operator and your visionary side, you know I would say that a lot of operators are very, you know, technical expert type individuals. Right, they're very. I like to sit behind and type stuff out and check the schedules and make sure people are getting stuff done. They may feel a little intimidated by hearing it. I'm not necessarily a people person, because there are a lot of operators that are still out there. Does that mean that that are owners? Does that mean that they can't succeed? No, they can. They just need to find a visionary to come in and help them or, in my case, bring the visionary back and delegate the operation side, because even though I'm good at it, it burns me out, you know.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, I mean, it's like the day-to-day grind can like eat away at you if you're really wanting to be somewhere else. So it's like, I think, reflecting on your own strengths and weaknesses as the leader, I think it's like you can't force a square peg in a round hole. You have to objectively be able to look at yourself and look at your team and get the most out of who they are. Like I talk about my, about this with my kids all the time. Like think about what comes easily and naturally to you. Like what comes naturally to you that's hard for other people, that's your like unique skillset and that's what you need to lean into. Conversely, like you can't force somebody that's like very like operationally focused, you know that's very detail oriented and put them in a sales role. Like why would you do that? You're taking a great asset and you're putting them and setting them up for failure.
Speaker 1:That being said, like talking about the visionary and the operator. Like vision is nothing, nothing without execution. So I think one challenge that really comes up is sometimes, like visionaries, they don't think like operators and so they come up with this amazing plan, but then they fail to realize the people that are executing this plan are part time people working your front desk making you $15 an hour, so you need to make it something that's like easily executable by the people that are going to execute and then connect the vision with the day-to-day operation and vice versa. Right, the operator needs to connect with the visionary, and so that's when you, you know, when you start talking about strategy, it's like it's nothing without execution. Well, good execution.
Speaker 2:You know and I think this is a lot of startups and a lot of entrepreneurs when they start out, they're incomplete, you know, they're in execution mode constantly. Back to what you were saying about. You know you have to be a people person. Like I forgot that I was a people person, you know, I forgot you know, and because you get so caught up in the operations and so for anyone who's a little bit like disgruntled because they may be like, well, I'm not really a people person. I'm, you know, and you could probably give a good example of this as well Like me, I wanted to go back out there and train myself to become that people person again.
Speaker 2:So what did I do? How do I become a better leader? I started to speak. I started to go out. I started to speak. I started to go out, I started to go on, I started to help people do more workshops, you know, and just try to communicate better. I'm a visual, I'm a. You got your communication and what you got, but I got mine in visual communication. So I've always been I've always been more of a visual type, like communicator, but I had to bring back and learn that the speak, the how to be a better people person, and so that could be a good step for anyone who's like at that point where it's like well, how do I be a people person?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can train yourself. I mean, you can like learn these skills. I mean you know, it's like if, if you want to learn something, it's just about getting reps in, right? It's like listen, I had a podcast. I had a podcast back in the day. I had 150. I filmed, I recorded 150 episodes.
Speaker 1:The first, like five, were so bad because I was so nervous, I was like stuttering, listen back on them. But after reps you get better. It's like whenever you're a beginner at anything, right, like my first sales presentation was so bad, I heard my voice quivering. I was shocked. Shocked when the person agreed to buy it for me, right. But it's just about getting reps in and like, the more you do something, the better you become at it. So, yeah, you can train yourself to learn skills that you don't have, and I feel like that's one of the biggest skill sets of entrepreneurs. Is like being able to be a beginner again and being open to being like a never ending learner. That's like always putting yourself in areas that are uncomfortable and just going through it anyway, because 90% of people don't want to do what's uncomfortable and they end up working for entrepreneurs that are willing to get themselves uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Well and that's a good point you bring up, because that is true, I think that the leader of the organization tends to have to have, at least you know a certain amount of time in each position that he eventually hires within the company, until it gets to a certain point. Correct? You know, you have to lead by example. You're going to have to learn something, if it be operations, if it be finance, if it be, if it be, you know, marketing, whatever it may be, you don't have to do it for a living, but learn it enough so that you can lead by example and learn how to grow your business for that. So, you're right, we do have to learn all the time.
Speaker 2:Last year I to become a better leader. I got up on the TEDx stage and to do so, I think I did within a seven month period, I think I was on 60 podcasts just to be like. I want to get my voice, I want to improve, I want to be better at speaking, and I still have a long way to go. But I'm still at that point where I knew that, hey, this was something new for me and I'm going to have to do it and not have an ego and just think that I'm this badass business owner that is, you know, is making a good amount of money. You know what I mean. So I 100% agree with you there.
Speaker 2:And so I back to that execution and good idea situation, because I am an operator and a visionary, like I geeked out last week by creating a since I am kind of a CMO type role right now is creating this whole SOP and this whole structure, doing all the recordings, talking through my team, through it from the operations side, telling them the vision. This is how we're going to do it, this is how we're going to go. But I noticed that just through the last couple of years of the transition and growth of my brand and the business that I've been growing, that I went from complete and utter chaos of operations and having no communication to leaning the exact opposite and having too many meetings with no execution, to now realizing, hey, now we're getting to a point where we don't need all these meetings, we need to go back, we need to start executing again.
Speaker 1:That's entrepreneurship, baby. You learn from doing the thing right. Like it's so funny. Like you know people that are listening to this might fall into this category, because I know I have you want to do all the research, like listen to the podcast, read the books on leadership, look at the LinkedIn articles, read about what everybody's doing, but like you need to do the thing. Like we learn from our biggest mistakes and that's one thing I've learned from like being a parent, being a manager, being a leader in work is like people don't learn from like what you tell them, like I could have told you like, oh, do this, do that. But you need to learn your way and sometimes we learn the biggest lessons from our mistakes and that's just facts.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's hard too, because no matter what kind of studio you have, what kind of business you have, operations are all different. And I'm not going to go into the whole niching and niche situation, because I'm in marketing and I can go on hours for that. But what I, what I could kind of go into, is the whole premise of, you know, learning from your failures. You know, I think that you're right. I think that we have a tendency to, especially at the beginning, to look down on our failures and put ourselves down a lot when those are actually the things that are going to help us get to the next level.
Speaker 2:I don't think any business is the same, and so I had to get to a point where I was like this is my, this is my brand, this is my business. I don't need to read, and I still read, of course, but I don't need to read, and I still read, of course, but I don't need to, like, take some huge sop that was created from a template and handed to me and say, oh, I need to run my business this way. Will it help in some way, form or another, to develop it my own way? Yes, but it's all about developing it your own way as a business owner. I think that's the funnest part I know.
Speaker 1:But I think that, like a lot of us and I'm guilty of this myself, so I'm not just like preaching here is like we want to avoid discomfort and that's kind of like the irony of what you were just mentioning, right, like we, we know, like mistakes are our biggest teachers, but then we don't want to go through the quote, unquote, failure or the experience. But you know, it's interesting. I was actually listening to a podcast recently, the Startup of you, by Reid Hoffman, who's the founder of LinkedIn, and he said something so profound that really like stuck with me, and he said that the best entrepreneurs make uncertainty their friend, and it's like not having all the answers and not having it all figured out and like leaning into that and learning as you go is the way, because even big organizations, even people that you look up to, that seem like they have it all figured out. They're learning as they go too.
Speaker 2:So oh, yeah, I, you know it's funny because I preach this all the time we talk about so many small brands. You know startups, you know under a million or even under 10 million, they're, they're always, they're always being like oh, you know, they try to look bigger than they are. You know, they're always out there trying to grow and say, oh, we have all these employees out. I was like, hey, listen, even the biggest brands, they actually want to be more like us because now they have so many employees. It takes so much time, energy change to make any sort of needle within the, within the. You know the change of their brand and what they're trying to do, but that uncertainty you're saying it's true, I mean I think it's in all of us. I still have my days all the time where I'm like man, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2:Today and I'll use a great example I had a paid speaking gig that I got for this month and it took me, you know, months. I'm kind of trying to build the momentum on going out and speaking more, doing more workshops. And I got a speaking gig. They picked me. We went through the whole process. I signed all the documents, got my plane tickets and then they emailed me and said we only had six people sign up. Like literally this week we only had six. It was last week six people sign up for this. So we're going to cancel your, your workshop, and I'm like I was just bummed for like a whole day and I'm like you know what, I'm allowed to be bummed, but tomorrow I'm going to get back into it and I'll come out stronger. But it's okay to have those days and that sense, as long as you're willing to pick yourself back up and try to learn from. Well, what can I learn from that scenario?
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's like one. It's just always being prepared, so you didn't lose the momentum of all the prep work that you put into that workshop, and now you can take that momentum and apply it to the next workshop, come up with a workshop of your own instead of like relying on somebody else to fill up the workshop. You host your own workshop and so, like you're kind of like the captain of the ship instead of, like you know, depending. I mean, I think that's like one of the biggest challenges, right, it's like you with somebody else and it doesn't work out. And I think that there's like so many things in our world and in our life that we look at that like dictate success, right, and so it's hard to get caught up in like the definition of success, but like you still put in that work, you still put in the reps of getting ready, and now you can like take that and apply it to something else.
Speaker 1:And I think you know to speak to an earlier point that you mentioned about like studio owners and gym owners looking at other brands and like wanting to be them. I think it's very important to like meet yourself where you're at and the stage of business that you're at, because, like I have literally worked with startup brands that have like minimal budget and they're sending me ads from Nike and Gatorade telling me like, oh, let's create something similar. I'm like, uh, do you realize what the budget is and the amount of people that put this ad together? And and then you know like it's like manage expectations. And I think that you know also, like a lot of gym owners and studio owners look at multiple.
Speaker 1:They confuse having more locations with being more successful. But the name of the game in our business is profitability, right, and so you can have five locations and they're bringing in $10,000 a month, or you can have one location that's bringing in $50,000 a month. Like which would you rather have, right? And so you know more locations, more members, more team members, higher overhead, more insurance, more operating expense and so like. It's easy to confuse growth with just more locations, like more signs up on storefronts, but I think it's really important to lean into profitability and that should be the focus as opposed to just opening more locations.
Speaker 2:I love you say. I have a couple stories in there. I had a, I had a prospect come to me, very similar what you were talking about, and I used to dictate, dictate. When I was validating the people that I could work with, I used to utilize the number of locations they had because I assumed that I knew a healthy studio where they would be number wise. And he came to me and he was like, oh yeah, I have to. You know, I have two locations. And I'm like, ok, I'm expecting in my head, you know, at the low end, one point five, maybe, maybe two, two is a nice, you know, healthy spot. And he was like, oh, we're making three hundred a year or two locations. And I'm like, did you? We're making 300 a year or two locations. And I'm like, dude, you need to close one of those down. I'm like you don't, even you should. You should be making more than that with one location.
Speaker 2:It was, it was, it was kind of funny to me, but I see it all the time too. I see, being a, you know, a CMO myself and working with a lot of campaigns, doing a lot of SEO campaigns, a lot of you know, branding packages and stuff, you know, I see quite a bit. They get stuck in I'm not going to say they get stuck in validation mode Studio owners get stuck in validation mode. There is this, this hypothesis that I have come up with, that I've realized that gyms get a lot of studios get stuck in that validation stage where they're like, oh, we have to validate, we have to validate. Into them. That's, let's go out and do all this marketing everywhere and do all this stuff. And I'm like, dude, you could basically grow your business to your studio to $1 million by just doing this, know, doing this and this. You don't need fancy Facebook ads, you don't need fancy, you don't need that. That stuff costs a lot of money, like you said, like you don't.
Speaker 1:And it's getting more expensive. It's getting harder to get in front of people.
Speaker 2:It is. It is. It's getting very hard. And that leans back to what we talked about with team and advocacy. I mean for me personally, I always my two biggest things I tell studio owners when we jump on a call is I'm like you know what the two criteria are for people to pick your studio and they're like what I'm like how close you are to their house and how the customer service is. Price of course is part of it too, price and all that, but I think that price can easily be. You know, it's kind of in that middle range of a value cell in a product cell. You're like right in the middle ground there. You know you can, you can sell off customer service and your team is, your are your advocates and allow them to with the culture and the customer service that they provide, allow them to kind of be the one that build the retention up in the studio and provide your existing members to bring more people in.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's all comes down to experience, right, like you can command a higher praise point. I think you know I'm from back in the day before boutique studios came into play. But the boutique studios really like shook up the gym and fitness world because it's like, oh wait, we've been charging like 79 a month. And then here comes this like unique brand that like only does one thing and they charge 250 a month. Like what in the world? So it just goes to show, like you, less is more, you can do less things, but if you do them really freaking well, you can charge more and command a higher price point. It all comes down to value.
Speaker 2:It does, it does. I do see. I think it's very similar in every industry, because I kind of went to it through it too. If you know, I guess we could go into the niching or niching, however you want to call it spectrum.
Speaker 2:But I see a lot of a lot of people saying I need a niche right away, like I need a niche right away, and I'm actually totally against that because I always say, hey, no, you need to figure out what works for you, what works out, test different things, validation mode, right like let's see what works, let's see, see what doesn't. And then, as time goes on and you start building some normal business you know memberships and retention and all that fun stuff then slim down, focus much more on team and values, and I think I just see it as a common stage indicator, to be honest with you, at a certain point in a studio's growth, of when they when they need to do certain types of things within the branding and marketing world. But I'm just ranting now, so so, yeah, I think that what you were saying with everything really depends on it really depends on the studio, right?
Speaker 1:I mean, there's a lot of factors at play that determine the success of a business, right? It's like what you said about the location. You know what I talked about with profitability, because you could be bringing in, you know, sixty thousand dollars a month and if your rent is two thousand dollars a month, it's very different from if you're in a prime location and your rent is $20,000 a month, right? So, like, that's like something to think about, and I think that's unfortunately a lot of studio owners are not set up for success when they do not negotiate good lease terms. And that's one of the benefits of getting involved in, you know, a franchise or somebody that helps you negotiate lease terms, because nothing makes me sadder than seeing somebody that's like a fitness professional that opens up their own gym or studio.
Speaker 1:And they just don't necessarily know, like, the business side of things of negotiating lease terms and tenant improvements and all these tricks and tips, of ways that you can get a favorable you know, favorable setup from the get-go. And then they're, you know, they give it their all because this is a passion-led business and it doesn't work out, you know, because there's so many factors. But it's like it's the team, it's the marketing. It's the product right Like you can't outsell a bad product, people need to know that product right. Like you can't outsell a bad product, people need to know that Like. If your experience that you're delivering is not up to par, you can't expect the sales team to be selling it like it's hot cake. So really being able to look at all of these things objectively, knowing your strengths and weaknesses and what you as a leader, bring to the table, and then hiring around to fit in the gaps that you don't have the expertise in, that's like kind of like where you start.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we could easily go into that with hiring the people around you, because you know I mean I think we've all dealt with this in some aspects of you know they just don't Studio owners just don't like to spend money on marketing. I don't know if it's just them or if it's everyone, but you know, I've seen just the numbers, I've seen just the numbers of studio owners be like. I'll see someone with like seven locations. The average is, I think, even with like seven to eight locations, they spend maybe $3,000 a month on marketing. And I'm like, to me as a marketer, I'm like I think that means your operations needs a little bit more work.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's easier said than done, of course, right, but yeah, I think it depends, Honestly, zach, like I think like old school is the new school and like if you are really good at relationships and creating grassroots, local marketing and cross promotions and connecting with people in your immediate neighborhood and community, then you don't need to invest as much in your sales funnel of like digital marketing. And honestly, I have to say that, like I have worked with so many digital marketing agencies and I feel like they take advantage of gym owners and studios because they'll let like impressions or reach, like be a kpi that you're tracking with your digital marketing agency because, like that is just a number that's big that they'll show you but it means nothing. What you should be tracking is your ad spend. How many leads did you generate? What was the conversion of those leads? Right?
Speaker 2:Those are the three things you need to worry about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like don't get hosed right. But yeah, I mean marketing is so many things right, but I think don't underestimate grassroots marketing, right the relationships.
Speaker 2:And I'll be real with you, I would put grassroots marketing within the budget of marketing, if I was to say, hey, this is marketing and I 100% agree with you. When we kind of built out, um, our secondary business, which is Jim Mark, we kind of really focused on this is about building a community, it's not about digital marketing, it's about everything together. So if, uh, you know, when we're talking to our clients, I will say, hey, if you're just starting out, you need to be going door to door. Find the communities in your area. That's you, that's your job as a, as a leader, is to find those community areas that you can do partnerships, right, how do you find relatable businesses in your area that can be a vertical for you? And I like to use, for example, like, if you're a yoga studio that focuses on, you know moms, prenatal, you know yoga, then maybe you have a partnership with the, with the daycare that's right across the street from you, right, like it's a good example of how you can use your, your local area to kind of help continue to build your community.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to change the spectrum on it because, you're right, there's so many companies out there, for instance, and I won't name all of them. But that will be like hey, we're just going to bring you a crap load of leads. I was just talking to someone yesterday. I've dealt with so many marketing companies and they'll bring me leads and I'm like your job isn't the salesman, your job is the owner and doing product you know to be doing, to focusing on leading. I'm like you're not meant to be on 200 phone calls a day, like you said.
Speaker 1:And sometimes like lead generation is a big spectrum right. So like, first of all, are they quality leads? Because I've also seen digital ad agencies put a radius of 25 miles around a gym or studio and then bring in like a boatload of leads that never convert, because the radius should be three to five miles around the gym or studio, not 25 miles. Nobody's going to want to sit in traffic To your point that you mentioned earlier. It has to be convenient. So it's like all the things right, but I think, like so one digital marketing agencies need to be like managed from the gym owner and studio side. It can't just be like a flip the switch and expect like great results. Like you have to ask great questions so that you're getting the right lead, so that you're or work with somebody that specializes in gyms and studios, that understands the nature of the business, not a digital agency that's working with hospital systems, that's working with car dealerships, and then they're working with you and they don't really understand the way the business works.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's 100%, and I think it definitely goes twofold too. It's like I do expect you know. When we're talking to these studio owners and we're helping them develop their marketing strategies no matter what it may be that you know it's like you need to have some laying in the game too. You're a leader in your gym and you need to know enough about this so that when we're going through these metrics or we're figuring out how do we improve these metrics, that you understand what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:You know that you understand what we're talking about. You know, yeah, and that's it's hard because, like, we live in a world where, like, everybody seems to be an expert at everything, right, but it's like, I mean, I think there's no shame in asking for help If you don't know. Something like hire a coach, hire a consultant, like get a book, download a course, something like educate yourself. But, especially when you're making financial investments, you need to know where you're putting your money and understand how it all works, before you start investing large amounts of money and then you're not sure why it's not working.
Speaker 2:I think it's safe to say that's in every field, right? Exactly? It's really like, hey, you don't need to go in and do your whole marketing campaign, but at least understand the basics of it enough so that when you jump on the call, I mean I've had prospects come to me I hate to say this because it grinds my gears quite a bit where they won't even read through my website and then they'll just expect me to jump on a call with them and I'm like did you know? We don't even do that, because did you go through and do your due diligence? Like, but vice versa too, it's the marketing agencies specifically, true, in a couple of industries, but studios first and foremost.
Speaker 2:I think I'm kind of past that, that point in the business I don't have to worry about those anymore. But I call those the basement dweller marketing agencies. Right, they're the ones, especially now in this, in the gym, in the gym space, you see a lot of the hey, pay per lead, performance, and that's just some dude that said, hey, I'm going to resell this to another person or a white label company and I'm just going to make a boatload of money and, because they think that that's how running a business works, make a boatload of money and because they think that that's how running a business works. So, but there's a lot of those marketing agencies out there and it's like, but there's still quite a few good ones and you know what the good ones do. The good ones do very similar to what the studios do.
Speaker 2:Me, I focus very big on values. We write a lot of content. We write all the content for crunch. Right now, all of my team has to follow uh, when I I bring them on has to follow our values. I mean I have a yoga instructor that writes all of our yoga content right, um, because they experience it, but they also can connect with it more. You know I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that. So it really does come down to that type of stuff, and I think that really going back to the core basics of this cast is I think that it really just comes down to finding those challenges, those opportunities, and how do you take those challenges and make them into opportunities? Learn from the mistakes of whatever you're doing and be able to turn them into opportunities. There's plenty of digital marketing agencies out there that suck. There's plenty of financial advisors out there that suck.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that are not fiduciaries and put you in the wrong direction. But yeah, I mean, I think that there's so many lessons that we can learn from our mistakes, but the thing is, we can't be afraid to keep moving forward, but we can't. The thing is like we can't be afraid to keep moving, just trying to see, like, what works, and they're throwing 10 million offers at the wall. And seeing, like, what people buy and they have like 10 different membership tiers and whatnot. I would say, before making any changes to what you're doing, talk to your customers. Like your customers have the answer. Even if you have 150 members, like your 150 members, ask them. Talk to them. What would you like to see? How could I bring more value to you? How could I improve your experience? What would I do to like, earn your business?
Speaker 1:To refer a friend, like, what do you have to see, instead of just like making arbitrary changes and constantly like fighting those fires. Like, speak to your customers. Speak to your members. Speak to your staff, because they also have great feedback on what clients are saying and why they're not buying or why they're canceling and then put on your visionary hat and make those strategic decisions based on data and maybe that's not from a spreadsheet, but it's from conversations that you've had with people. But make those decisions based on information, not just like a guess and like oh, I saw this person on Instagram is offering this this month. They're offering zero enrollment, so I'm going to offer zero enrollment. I saw like this is stuff that's really happened to me as a consultant, like sending me screenshots of like different gyms and studio offers and saying we should do this, we should do this, we should do this. It's like talk to the customers, take time to do surveys and understand your core business that you already have before adapting and making changes.
Speaker 2:I think that goes back to what I was saying about getting out of validation mode, because I think that it's a mindset thing. It's a mindset thing. It's hey, like you said, you don't have to do a million things. I had a studio. I'm in Arizona and I was talking to a studio out of Tucson and I remember the business owner was like this gym, the studio down the street, we want to do what they're doing there.
Speaker 2:They look like they're successful and I, I just look at them. I'm like you don't even know what their profit margin is. Like you don't know what their, their operations is. Like you want to just copy them. Like you don't even know how to copy them.
Speaker 2:For one, I'm like two, who says they're more what you would consider successful, of course, but he was the owner, he wasn't in the business, he wasn't the manager that I was talking to, but I saw the very same thing and I was just like all right, like I don't think we're going to be able to work together because I don't think that you understand the concept of what's going to take for this to make it to the next level. But it is funny you say that. But again, we could probably ran all day. I think that we could probably make this a 10 hour podcast if we really wanted to, but I know you and I both have things to do and people to see, so what we'll do here is we'll cut it off now and then, why don't you tell everyone a little bit on where they can find you, where they can find you, how they can get in contact with you?
Speaker 1:Sure, thank you. So you can find me. My website is VanessaSeverianocom. Obviously, my last name is Portuguese and it's long so I'm not going to spell it out for you. I'm sure Zach will be nice enough to put it in the show notes of this podcast so you could just click on the link. I'm very active on LinkedIn and I also have a weekly free newsletter called the Growth Blueprint that I put out. That's delivered straight to your inbox every week with real stories, tips and tricks. So if you want to sign up for that, that'd be amazing and I'll see you there.
Speaker 2:That's wonderful. Well, again, thank you for being on. I really appreciate you. This is another episode of the Gym Break cast. I'm your host, zach Coleman, and I hope everyone has a good day. Thanks, zach, thank you.
